WHO Poll
Q: 2023/24 Hopes & aspirations for this season
a. As Champions of Europe there's no reason we shouldn't be pushing for a top 7 spot & a run in the Cups
24%
  
b. Last season was a trophy winning one and there's only one way to go after that, I expect a dull mid table bore fest of a season
17%
  
c. Buy some f***ing players or we're in a battle to stay up & that's as good as it gets
18%
  
d. Moyes out
38%
  
e. New season you say, woohoo time to get the new kit and wear it it to the pub for all the big games, the wags down there call me Mr West Ham
3%
  



ludo21 9:42 Sun Nov 15
Re: Being English
..... despite appearances, doesn't take itself too seriously.

Lertie Button 7:32 Sun Nov 15
Re: Being English
A conservative little country that has never got over losing an empire or winning the second world war.
Archetypal Englishmen Captain Mainwaring and Wayne Slob

stomper 5:37 Sun Nov 15
Re: Being English
There is a direct link between Locke, Lilburne, the Levellers and independent congregations in the British Revolution.
Take this from 1646 and Newgate Prison

“God, the absolute Soveraign Lord and King, of all things in heaven and earth, the originall fountain, and cause of all causes, who is circumscribed, governed, and limited by no rules, but doth all things merely and onely by his soveraign will, and unlimited good pleasure, who made the world, and all things therein, for his own glory, and who by his own will and pleasure, gave man (his meer creature) the soveraignty (under himself) over all the rest of his creatures, Gen. I, 26. 28. 29. And indued him with a rationall soule, or understanding, and thereby created him after his own image, Gen. I, 26, 27 and 9.6. the first of which was Adam, a male, or man, made out of the dust or clay, out of whose side was taken a Rib, which by the soveraign and absolute mighty creating power of God, was made a female, or woman cal’d Eve, which two are the earthly, originall fountain, as begetters and bringers forth of all and every particular and individuall man and woman, that ever breathed in the world since, who are, and were by nature all equall and alike in power, dignity, authority, and majesty, none of them having (by nature)any authority dominion or magisteriall power, one over or above another, neither have they, or can they exercise any, but merely by institution, or donation, that is to say, by mutuall consent and agreement, for the good benefit and comfort each of other, and not for the mischiefe, hurt, or damage of any, it being unnaturall, irationall, sinfull, wicked and unjust, for any man, or men whatsoever, to part with so much of their power as shall enable any of their Parliament men, Commissioners, Trustees, deputies, Viceroys, ministers, Officers or servants, to destroy and undoe them therewith; And unnaturall, irrational, sinfull, wicked, unjust, divelish, and tyranicall it is, for any man whatsoever, spirituall or temporall, Cleargy-man or Lay-man, to appropriate and assume unto himselfe, a power, authority and jurisdiction, to rule, govern, or raign over any sort of men in the world, without their free consent, and whosoever doth it, whether Cleargy-man, or any other whatsoever, doe thereby as much as in them lyes, endeavour to appropriate & assume unto themselves the Office and soveraingty of God (who alone doth, and is to rule by his will and pleasure) and to be like their creator, which was the sinne of the Devils, who not being content with their first station, but would be like God, for which sin they were thrown down into hell, reserved in everlasting chaines, under darknes, unto the judgement of the great day Iude ver. 6. And Adams sin it was, which brought the curse upon him and all his posterity, that he was not content with the station and condition that God created him in, but did aspire unto a better, and more excellent, (namely to be like his Creator) which proved his ruin, yea, and indeed had been the everlasting ruin and destruction of him and all his, had not God been the more mercifull unto him in the promised Messiah. Gen Chap.3.
From my cock-loft in the press yard, Newgate. 19th June, Per me John Lilburne .”

ironsofcanada 4:45 Sun Nov 15
Re: Being English
stomper 4:34 Sun Nov 15


Some of Locke's first writing was on tolerance within the Church (like Milton that of course did not include Catholics) for groups like that and it was essential in his political theory.

Obviously Hobbes is critical in the future as well I just don't think that Locke was in dialogue with him as much as some people say. But then again I only known it well from Locke's side.

But I should go to sleep even if it is Sunday.

stomper 4:34 Sun Nov 15
Re: Being English
ironsofcanada 4:16 Sun Nov 15

Hobbes was reacting to the war in Britain and his own cowardice.
There is a direct link between the Protestantism and legalism of John Lilburne and the Levellers and Locke in Holland and the Glorious revolution.

yngwies Cat 4:25 Sun Nov 15
Re: Being English
Betjeman's Blighty. An England that once upon a year was held dear

However, times, do a change...

ironsofcanada 4:16 Sun Nov 15
Re: Being English
I disagree.

I think more than being a reaction to Hobbes, Locke was reacting to Filmer and indirectly DeCartes, mediated through his more personal influences like the science of Boyle and politics of the first Earl of Shaftesbury.

stomper 4:10 Sun Nov 15
Re: Being English
You cant have Locke without having Hobbes

ironsofcanada 4:09 Sun Nov 15
Re: Being English
stomper 4:06 Sun Nov 15

Maybe

But I try to be more an optimist, so he stays of my personal list.

stomper 4:06 Sun Nov 15
Re: Being English
Ironsofcanada 4:02 Sun Nov 15

Maybe you should add Hobbes to your list?

stomper 4:03 Sun Nov 15
Re: Being English
So it was essentially parliament proving the sovereignty of law over the king - if you have the revolution going from 1638 to 1689

ironsofcanada 4:02 Sun Nov 15
Re: Being English
Gavros 3:52 Sun Nov 15

It was the Army proving superiority over the King, they happened to support the Parliament and then they didn't.

The War put some ideas in people's head but it was trading one mediated dictatorship for another. Parliament had limited power before that. The backlash against the War allowed the King to pretty much ignore parliament again . It was not until another King committed the crime of being openly Catholic that Parliament was able to gain real elements of power. Hence the Glorious Revolution.

(The Enlightenment came centuries after the Hundred Years war.)

stomper 4:01 Sun Nov 15
Re: Being English
Democracy certainly raised its head with the Levellers 'Agreement of the people' but it was crushed beneath the Iron heel of Cromwell and the army.
What was proved was A) Might is right as long as it works
b) only law can preserve mankind from living a life that is nasty, brutish, solitary and short

Gavros 3:52 Sun Nov 15
Re: Being English
no it wasnt. it was essentially parliament proving its sovereignty over the king.

Now lets not confuse democracy at that time with that now, but it was a major step forward that chimed with magna carta,

also its worth pointing out that all of these things were products of the enlightenment and so not necessarily english at birth, but englands isolation at the time during the hundreds years war allowed these things to develop where elsewhere they were usurped by the realpolitik of war.

ironsofcanada 3:51 Sun Nov 15
Re: Being English
stomper 3:47 Sun Nov 15

People would love a Lord Protector these days.

stomper 3:47 Sun Nov 15
Re: Being English
Democracy was destroyed in the English Civil War

Gavros 3:45 Sun Nov 15
Re: Being English
the rule of law

individual liberty

standing up for ones values

democracy



these are the basics and go back at least until the english civial war

ironsofcanada 3:31 Sun Nov 15
Re: Being English
Proud to be 3/4 English despite you lot.(only sometimes.)

Magna Carta (thanks for being weak my 25th great grandfather John)
Refining the language
Jonson
Milton
Locke
The Glorious Revolution
Dr. Johnson
Blake
The discipline of the redcoats
General James Wolfe (not being French)
Football

And lots of other good stuff.

RAF Hammer 3:23 Sun Nov 15
Re: Being English
Pubs - Nothing like it anywhere else even if they try and call it the English pub, usually with live football and REAL English breakfasts.

The weather - say no more.

The Royal family - All the foreigners love seeing them when they come over and when they go on tour to the former colonies.

Queuing - Nobody does that like us and we still moan about it.

Moaning - About pubs closing, the weather, lazy Royals and queuing.

:^) 3:15 Sun Nov 15
Re: Being English
As a superior Englishman, I'd forgive them and roll their eyes back to them safely, in an understanding manner.

It's what makes us better than everyone else. We are lovely, and just.

Capitol Man 2:54 Sun Nov 15
Re: Being English
Being simply better than everyone in the whole world genetically.


You'd think the rest of them would understand this and not just roll their eyes when you try to explain this to them.

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